tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post6504210188407649388..comments2024-03-26T08:22:23.744-04:00Comments on Glenshee Equestrian Centre: "Natural Horsemanship" Part 2Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-1243228763273323482009-03-13T15:28:00.000-04:002009-03-13T15:28:00.000-04:00well said! couldn't agree more.well said! couldn't agree more.jmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04295140724737185132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-75735400652734102782009-03-13T15:16:00.000-04:002009-03-13T15:16:00.000-04:00To me, the most valuable thing I ever learned in r...To me, the most valuable thing I ever learned in relation to horses was that they're wired differently than humans (i.e., they're prey animals) and you have to be able to work with that- you ignore it at your peril.<BR/><BR/>While I think there's a lot to learn from natural horsemanship, a lot of it seems to be similar to what I've read in old cavalry manuals and similar literature- it seems that it's come full circle.<BR/><BR/>IMHO, there are definate boundaries that have to be established and usually more progress can be made by working with the horse in a non-abusive manner than otherwise. But still, the baselines of respect have to be established before you can go forward.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the one thing that seems to always stand out is that all of this is going to take time- A LOT OF TIME. If you're not willing to put in the time to go things right, it's not going to go well. There's no magic pill.Adam Lidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12766653217930878979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-78992287662760264012008-09-25T23:33:00.000-04:002008-09-25T23:33:00.000-04:00I just found your blog, and I really like it! I t...I just found your blog, and I really like it! I think with this you really hit the problem on the head, the NH trainers who are happy to make money remotely, and not make actual face-to-face contact with their followers (for lack of a better word) are doing the horses a great disservice. They are fostering an idea that was started in books like "The Black Stallion" that a horse is almost human, has human goals, considerations, and can have human friends on a human level. <BR/><BR/>Which is pretty heady stuff in a society that gives such power and meaning to horses specifically and animals in general. And it goes pretty far with humans, it resonates with us, because we crave attention and belonging and have a powerful imagination. WE want a bond with our horses. WE want to be friends. It's not because we're pushovers, or weak or bad, it's because WE are programmed to be friendly, social, compassionate and giving. <BR/>Horses are social, friendly, and, if they aren't the top dog, submissive. But they don't have compassion as we understand it, they aren't giving as we understand it either. <BR/><BR/>But NH does foster this nascent idea that if we only knew how to reach them, horses *could* be like humans. Which is exactly the opposite of what really happens, which is that, if you really try, humans can be like horses. We can only communicate with them on their level, which is exactly what that woman didn't get. She needed a human companion, not an animal companion. But so many people believe that an animal is a better companion than a human, they try to make the animal into a human. If you want a friend who will listen, understand and give you some feedback that is useful, get an adult friend. Kids, horses, cats, dogs, and ducks- as wonderful as they all are- just can't give you that.Pipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455146369722404052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-64951813258647621432008-08-12T20:01:00.000-04:002008-08-12T20:01:00.000-04:00That totally sucks. That person is crazy. People n...That totally sucks. That person is crazy. People need to get slapped aside the head sometimes... reading a book does not make you a horseperson. The cute trick your foal does now will be a dangerous habit your terror does later. Jeez...okapistripeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05863206268931558551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-54800555041587348442008-07-31T19:38:00.000-04:002008-07-31T19:38:00.000-04:00DIJ - i agree completely. i didn't want to come o...DIJ - i agree completely. i didn't want to come off as being against NH. i'm not. while i don't particularly appreciate the way some of the 'celebrity' trainers do seem to be more interested in making money than doing right by the horses, 90% of the problem is the people who misinterpret what NH is saying. i don't want to bash NH, as there really is a lot of good in it. i just want to see the people who practice it understand what they are doing. but i think you summed it up perfectly: not everyone is cut out to be a horse trainer. and no method or training philosophy is going to make everyone into a good trainer...jmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04295140724737185132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-37193920895468664642008-07-31T14:15:00.000-04:002008-07-31T14:15:00.000-04:00I see this often with natural horsemanship advocat...I see this often with natural horsemanship advocates; and even with people who just own other animals, like dogs, cats, etc. What I've come to find is that is not so much the teaching (natural horsemanship) as it is the <I>person</I>.<BR/><BR/>You also see this in parenting, where parents become 'friends' to their children and are too afraid to discipline their kids because then they 'won't be liked'. You actually mentioned this in your post--"She didn’t want to stand up to him and demand his respect, however gently, because he might think she was being "mean" to him and might not like her if she did." The parents who show this behavior did not read it somewhere or watch it on a video, it is just in their nature to be passive to a point where they cannot earn the respect of anyone or anything. Where they a horse they would be at the bottom of the herd hierarchy, but instead they are thrust into an 'alpha' role--having kids, or in your case, having a horse. Hence, disaster!<BR/><BR/>This happens a lot with rescue animals, where the same type of person will 'feel so bad!' for a certain animal and bring it home. Animals don't want us to feel bad for them, they want leadership. These animals often tend to be bad-tempered or badly trained, and often times these 'rescuers' have too many.<BR/><BR/>But, back to horses. I think this happens so often with NHers is not that the program tells you to do it--I've dabbled in Parelli and on the first DVD they tell you to hit to get a response if you have to, (in so many words) and that horses want someone to follow, not someone to be friendly. They say this constantly, because a lot of their students are too 'friendly' (aka, pushovers). I think these people are drawn to these programs because they think 'natural' means they won't have to hurt horsey. It all comes down to these people being far too passive in real life--now just imagine all they have is a book and a video to teach them how to behave around their horses! It's why so many people get hurt with these programs.<BR/><BR/>I am not entirely sticking up for NH or Parelli because its got it's own gooberly garp marketing ploys (if you were really in it for the horses, why do 6 DVDs cost 400 bucks? Especially when it only costs 25 cents to make a DVD?) and issues ('when a horse looks at you with his ears back, give him a treat!' ....what???), just that training programs and ideas often are not the problem--90% of people are NOT cut out to be horse trainers--or any kind of animal trainer, for that matter!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-85284862261372548772008-05-19T09:48:00.000-04:002008-05-19T09:48:00.000-04:00ha, ha! nope, i'm still here. been busy but i'll...ha, ha! nope, i'm still here. been busy but i'll post another soon. :-)jmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04295140724737185132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-87843973966997623142008-05-18T19:01:00.000-04:002008-05-18T19:01:00.000-04:00When are we going to hear more from you or did thi...When are we going to hear more from you or did this crazy client do you in?Grey Horse Mattershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05837575441967937196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-66899033991290212932008-02-21T20:06:00.000-05:002008-02-21T20:06:00.000-05:00mrs mom,that hat is great - our farrier had one ju...mrs mom,<BR/><BR/>that hat is great - our farrier had one just like it. and i love the idea for t-shirts! i will be sure to get one for myself!<BR/><BR/>grey horse,<BR/><BR/>thanks for the award and the tag. i'll be over for both soon :-)jmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04295140724737185132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-53282253055777816982008-02-19T19:35:00.000-05:002008-02-19T19:35:00.000-05:00Just one more tag, you might enjoy this one, stop ...Just one more tag, you might enjoy this one, stop by and pick it up.Grey Horse Mattershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05837575441967937196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-59028302034144840262008-02-19T19:21:00.000-05:002008-02-19T19:21:00.000-05:00Hi,Stop by to pick up your Blog of Excellence Awar...Hi,<BR/>Stop by to pick up your Blog of Excellence Award when you get the chance.Grey Horse Mattershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05837575441967937196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-80498959718241979442008-02-10T21:17:00.000-05:002008-02-10T21:17:00.000-05:00Have you heard anything from The Grapevine if she ...Have you heard anything from The Grapevine if she died yet? <BR/><BR/>Seriously- we got a hat from Gina (www.hoofprints.com) that says "If your horse botes me, It WILL cost you extra."<BR/><BR/>You need to get a shirt for people like that, and have it say something like, "That'll be your little secret" or "They conceal knowledge like that in books"..<BR/><BR/>Glad you invited her to leave before she got you mauled- or one of your staff or other clients.Mrs. Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15269132012512166439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-78945453332301946412008-02-08T08:55:00.000-05:002008-02-08T08:55:00.000-05:00This woman is obviously and imbecile, whatever you...This woman is obviously and imbecile, whatever you charged her for this service, was certainly not enough for the hardship you endured, personally and professionally.One can only hope that she has seen how wrong she was by now and has changed her ways, but I wouldn't count on it. People like that always think they are right and never see just how wrong they really are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-7319081489900408092008-02-08T08:23:00.000-05:002008-02-08T08:23:00.000-05:00This is what gets me so riled up about these natur...This is what gets me so riled up about these natural horsemanship people, they have no idea what the hell is going on. It sounds like you were doing the right thing for this persons horse, but she couldn't see that. Anyone who doesn't care that her horse broke someones nose and eyesocket, is someone who has no idea what in the world is going on and should not have a horse to begin with, let alone train. You're good to be rid of her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-829570931882245246.post-15828779926232213242008-02-08T08:20:00.000-05:002008-02-08T08:20:00.000-05:00Sounds like you had a delusional client on your ha...Sounds like you had a delusional client on your hands. It really is too bad, so many natural horsemanship people don't understand the real meaning behind this sort of training. The clinicians who tout this stuff are in it for the money and fame and the horses suffer for their egos, the owners, who mean to do well for their horses are confused by what they are selling. So in the long run, we are left with spoiled, dangerous horses, who are not trained properly. <BR/>I am not an advocate of whipping a horse, but there are unabusive ways of training and handling horses so they are not a danger to themselves or their humans. I have never in my life taken a whip to a horse, and yet they are all trained to respect my space, and I can honestly say they are all well trained in their manners. A horse is a huge and powerful animal and to have bad manners is unacceptable, they must learn respect at any age. I would recommend if you are an owner using the natural horsemanship method(the way you understand it)and it isn't working for your horse, perhaps you should look into alternative methods, that do work.Grey Horse Mattershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05837575441967937196noreply@blogger.com